Cutting and such...

[steel_lily]

<reaches to your shoulder> Hey friend...I know it's tough. I know how it hurts. I...<shakes head> I am still engaged in this battle...it seems like it will never end, and it seems as if I'm the only one who hasn't given up some days. <long breath> I know.

You can take this. You can do this. From what I can see, you're all he's got. You may be the one thing keeping him here. Don't give in now!! You are his hope, each day that dawns is another chance to talk to him and know that he is okay. You talked with him, he's still here. Listen boy, this fight's not over yet. Yes, there is a long way to go. And yes, you're not even anywhere safe yet. But you are not the only one fighting this.

You always, may I stress ALWAYS, have your Adonai. He is there and he never leaves your side, nor your friend's. I'm sure speak for everyone here when I say that we will listen and give the best advice that we can possibly give. But I go one step further in pledging myself. I have said this to many people in my life, I admit, but it retains meaning and I yet have strength from whence I do not know. When you run out of strength, when you feel like you can't go on, you can count on me. Take all the strength and reassurance you can from me, I always seem to have plenty to spare. I mean it. When you can't take it anymore, I'll be here. <shrugs> My words don't do much...but anything they can do...

[Kirke]

Lad, if you love this one you will find a way to tell his parents, or if they don't care, a local church of respect, and if you can't do either of those, apparently suicide hotlines might be a resource. If you love him, you'll do what it takes to get this stopped. If you hate him you'll not tell anyone that might actually be able to help.

If you do that and anything else you know is right to do, you've done what you're responsible to do, brother, you've done your part and swung your sword. Whatever happens no matter what is up to I Am, the Irresistible One. But, lad, you can't change anyone. You can only control your own actions. With God's blessing, strike a blow against evil and for good by getting true power involved. Parents, Church, and if you have no other recourse, some organization or the State. I'll be praying.

[beefmonger]

Thanks, guys. I talked to him again and he said he was "in a bad mood." I don't know what's going on with him anymore. I have a feeling he's not telling me the whole truth. And the advice you give is sound, but I still don't know a lick about anything in Florida. I don't have an address or anything, and I would think to do all the things you suggest require that type of knowledge. But the suicide hotline thing sounds like it might be promising. Think you could fill me in on the types of things they do?

[Kirke]

Bro, I tried to say this earlier...but everyone else seems to be taking this seriously, so I assumed they knew something I don't. If that's so, ignore this: Many people online, perhaps most; especially ones who seem extreme, lie.

I know I come across quite a bit differently online than I do in person without trying. That's why I suggested you contact a local church and have them handle it. They'll be able to drive to his house, talk to him, and find out the truth or falsehood of what he's telling you, and deal with it accordingly.

[heyyou]

Ok, I agree. But you keep saying you know no way to contact this kid or anyone who knows him. So I suggest again, calling somewhere.

(I'm sorry for the following, it's not pleasant) As for this being fake, let me tell a story. It's true. There were kids in the district I live in a few years before I was born, and a new kid had moved to their school. He was trying to fit in and joked around alot, but seemed to make stuff up, to impress people or get attention. They were trying to give him a chance. So they were all hanging out one day and he said in a light tone that he wanted to die. That he was going to commit suicide. They asked if he was serious, he said yeah, then went on smiling and talking. They didn't know him, knew he was known for making stuff up, and figured he was okay, because he kept smiling. Tha night they each got phone calls "We're sorry, but we need to question you...his parents said you were last to speak to with him, other than them. He's dead now. Did he say anything about suicide to you?"

Next story; there were these two kids, talking to eachother online, They knew eachother in person, but neither trusted the other terribly much. One of them was sayong online how awful he was feeling, how he wanted to die, was going to go kill himself. The other kid said he didn't believe him, to stop being dramatic. They found the one who threatened, passed out, bleeding, on the floor.

Next story; Ouija boards. Illegal for a reason. A neighboring town up here had a group of kids 20 years ago playing the game. It told one of them to commit suicide. The one said he would that night. They all thought he was just playing. He said he wasn't, they let it go. It was just a game. Nobody was that stupid. Then another girl got scared, and called him that night, no answer. Called the police, they got there, he was missing, checked the garage, guess what?

I'm sorry, you probably didn't need to hear all that. Well, no, you really just didnt need to. But here's the point. Whether you have any way of knowing the truth or not, it's a risk. It's gambling. Not doing something because you aren't sure if he is lying is like rolling dice and saying even numbers he'll be dead or almost so within a year, odds say he's just messing online. Please, don't play with dice. Don't gamble like that. Too big a risk.

What does a hotline do? They ask for any information you can give, if a screennames all you've got, they'll see what they can do. Here's a website that'll give you numbers by state: suicidehotlines.com/. If you scroll down past the numbers, they explain what to expect when you call and why to call.
I'm sorry, and hope none of this was too harsh.

I am here. Anyway I can help, I will. All those stories were true. I'm not messing around on here, I honestly want to help. Save your friend, love him, get him help. Please.

I'm sorry, and I'm here.

[Kirke]

My point was to take it seriously, but realize that you shouldn't worry too much about it.

God'll decide if he needs to be put in the ground for any reason. You change you, you control you, you're responsible for you. If you do right, then don't worry about what other people do. That's 'tween them and their Maker.

[beefmonger]

I had no idea ouija were illegal. I mean, I knew they weren't something to be fooling around with, but I didn't think they were outlawed *shrugs*

Anyways, I totally agree with the gamble thing. It'd just be insanely idiotic to not do anything about it because you're scared you might get embarrassed or something...

I also agree with you, James, that it's ultimately up to YHVH.

Oh yes, and thank you for the website for the suicide hotline things. Looks promising.

[steel_lily]

Ultimately, yes. But I've come to understand the way things work and it's a little bit different. God calls you to pray, yes. he is in control, yes. But the fact that he can intervene does not always mean that he will. We are called, as followers and servants of Christ, to act as well as pray. Tibetan monks live in the monestaries and the mountains and to nothing but meditate, pray, and concern themselves with themselves. How often do you hear about Tibetan monks saving lives?

We are called to be in the world, but not of the world. A force that lives among the darkness but is in and of itself light. By being so different from the world around us, people are drawn to us. Ever pause to consider why it is that your friend is talking to you, of all people, about this? It is because you are different. He sees something in you that is lacking the rest of the people around him. Strength, hope, a sort of light. Christ. You have to do something about this.

Not to go off on a tangent, but I was involved in an attempt to start a Bible Study at this time last year. To be perfectly honest, it was a hellish experience. I have never met a group of people more intent on praying in my life. They are amazing prayer warriors (to pardon the colloquialism). However, they continued to pray and continued to pray and continued to pray. As I watched things unfold, I realized just how much they were missing. God was setting things up perfectly for them, just as they had asked him to in so many fervent prayers. And yet they were blind that it was the time for action. They continued to sit on their collecitve rears and pray. Every single week....meet, talk about a Bible passage, and pray. The prayer would sometimes take an hour or an hour and a half. It was remarkable how ardently these people could call out to God. It was equally as remarkable how blind they were.

One day, I could take it no more. I had friends, people I knew, aching for some sort of light in their lives. They wanted specifically to know God better. God had already provided everything necessary to make this Bible Study happen. All that had to be done was a little bit of contacting people and gathering people to come participate. It would be specifically geared toward teens. So...I spoke. For what may have been 20 minutes, I spoke ardently and passionately about the depth of despair I saw in my school, about the people around me just trying to make it through another day. I spoke and related until I was moved to the point of tears. Rarely am I so honest in front of people I respect so little. But I spoke. I gave it everything I had. I spoke, even, of the children in my school who might not make it another night, who were at that very point in time fighting for their lives against an unassailable darkness that they could not fight on their own.

The reaction? They banned me. I was no longer allowed to attend the meetings, no longer allowed to fight for a change. I was too young, too volitile, too action-oriented, too confrontational, and basically too convicted to fit in. Soon thereafter, my parents were banned from attending as well. Within a month the entire thing fell through. They prayed....passionately and long and near incessantly. But they did not act. And becasue of that, nothing happened. Who died? Probably noone. Who was really hurt? Probably noone. But the fact remains that God set it all up, and they did nothing, and now there is no Bible Study in my area. Nothing.


Relevance? I'm sorry, but I don't think I can spell it out more clearly than that. Yes, you have swung your sword. Yes, you have done more than anyone can ask of you. But I am noone, and I ask more. I beg that you please continue to swing that sword of yours until there is nothing left for you to attack. Please....fight. You are accountable for what you do and what you know. The fight is not yet over...it has hardly begun. Would you abandon your friend now?

Beruch ata Adonai, Eloheniu malech ha-olam, asher kidshanu B'mitsvotav Vitsivanu....

[Alameth of the Iron Fist]

It's hard to fight for them when they don't want you. Hard, but not impossible. Keep on.

[Kirke]

Your logic works, Sammi. However, if the people don't want to be fought for/helped, Proverbs says it's a waste of time.

I think a very obvious reason why is one you illustrated: there are people who actually want help. Help the lady who is crippled and asks you to change her tire. Not the biker that curses you out when you ask him if he wants your aid in changing his.

[steel_lily]

Turn the other cheek, James. Whether this boy wants help or not, he needs it. Love your enemies.

The times I am most encouraged that I am helping at the right time are those where I am being cursed at or attacked in some way. The harder they push you away, the more they are trying to hide something.

Are you suggesting that medically-assisted suicide is right? A while ago, there was a great debacle over doctor-assisted suicide. Those people didn't want help, they didn't want answers, they didn't want medicine. They wanted an end. So you would help them in that? You would legalize that?

Many people seeking an abortion do not wish help or council. They want an abortion. Would you not still try to show them that they are commiting murder?

Consider an illustration from The Last Samurai. There is an assassination attempt on the head samurai. The only one who notices in time is a man who is being held captive by the samurai. A man literally throws himself on his leader...this would be cause for death at any time. And yet, in this case, this man would be honored later. He saved his leader's life.

Just because people don't want help doesn't mean they don't need it. Just...be gentle.

[beefmonger]

Well, this all sounds good and it sounds mostly like what I'm doing, so that's reassuring. I guess I just have to keep on plugging away, no matter how long it takes.

I e-mailed a suicide prevention service, and they basically just said he had to come to them and that I should give him some of their contact information and all that kinda stuff. So now he has a resource if he starts feeling even worse. I guess that and just being there for him is I can do...

[Alameth of the Iron Fist]

That's what it takes. Just keep going.

[Kirke]

Absolutely. My post and my opinions show my obvious intent to legalize euthanasia. I'm also a fan of demonolatry and guide my life according to the principles of chiromancy, which you can clearly see in my posting of the lyrics to "Beer for my Horses" on the music board. The logic is implicit and only a fool could miss it! <--that totally rhymed.

Another thing, beefmonger, is consider the worst possible outcome and ask yourself questions about it.

Worst possible case within (some) realism: The boy murders his family before killing himself.

If that happens, then what? He murdered his family and then murdered himself...did it surprise God? Are those people's souls anywhere God doesn't want them to be?

Obviously, no. It didn't; they aren't.

But for the love of taking things too seriously, someone else's suicide isn't Biblically as big of a deal to me as my tendency to be cruel to my siblings...my point is, our sins should be far more important to us than this fellow's.

[beefmonger]

It's not his sins that worry me, it's the consequences of his sins. Aren't we also supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves? That's all I'm doing, not worrying about the splinter in his eye when there's a log in mine.

[heyyou]

Love thy neighbor as thyself. Just keep fighting Beefguy, keep trying. Trust God, becuase he is all anyone's ever really got anyway. You are loving him, just as you should. Not turning away, keep up what you're doing please...

[steel_lily]

The questions you should be asking about theworst possible outcome are different than those James chose to showcase. You should be asking about the personal effects of his death. What would that do to you? What would that do to his family? What would your reaction be?

These are unpleasant, but unavoidable. They are what you should say to him, should you have to argue for his life.

[Alameth of the Iron Fist]

I echo. If it comes to arguing, those are the arguments you must use. They are arguments I have myself used. They work, if the person is willing to listen to any kind of reason.