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Post by beefmonger on Sept 25, 2006 17:41:12 GMT -5
I've got a close friend and he's really going through some tough poop. He's been cutting himself and things in his life are just really screwed up at the moment. If you have any suggestions for what I should say or anything like that, I'd appreciate it, but if not, please just pray for him. He needs it.
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 25, 2006 21:17:30 GMT -5
There are no words for that, except that if this knowledge does not screw you up, you need to look up the term 'cutting'!!!
Okay. End of rant. I'm sorry....I have no words for this. If he truly is cutting, you have to make him stop. You have to give him hope and give him someone to turn to, someone to live for. You have to understand, and be a good influence.
This is not right. Noone has that right.....you have to give him hope.
I...<bows head> I know not what else to say.
**It is also important to note that you cannot do this on your own. Seek outside help, as practically as possible**
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Post by heyyou on Sept 25, 2006 21:18:45 GMT -5
Wow. Umm...anybody have an ideas of a warning system about topics like these? This is a difficult subject and very, very serious. Scrolling down a moderately friendly forum and seeing a title like this was kind of...yikes.
Number one, Kid, that's rough. And, saying this as kindly as I possibly can, do you realize what cutting is? It's bloodshed. Cut the wrong vein, you could die. You could cause permanent damage. Cutting at all, whatever the reasoning behind it, is in the category of being suicidal. Suicide is death. You can't make up for that, you can't...God, sorry I'm rambling.
Just realize, and please understand that this is alright to do: it could quickly get to a point/might be at the point where you need to get him help. Real help.
Ways you can help. Number One, is a tie. A toss up between pray and be there. Let him know that everytime he hurts himself he's hurting you as badly or worse. If you care about him (I'm most certain you do) then imagine him dying. Of this. And you knowing. beforehand. You can prevent severity here, and help it to stop. Whatever crap is happening in the rest of his life, it's not worth ending a life over. I can promise you and him that.
Don't let him be or feel alone. If he has a reason to live, and not hurt himself, it's gonna be a person first. What does it do to you to watch him bleed? To see the scars? How does that, is that going to effect you? And him? be reasonable. Cutting is hard to get away from, is often compared to an addiction. "It makes you feel better sometimes." But it's wrong. It's dangerous. It's against all instinct and natural way. The word itself, at anytime, makes me shiver and break in some way.
By doing this, it's him who's ruining his life. It's him who making all the tough crap impossible. There is no situation that without some sacrifice of a want, and a major effort, cannot be solved or made better. None. Name one, I'll prove it to you. (There are exceptions like terminal illnesses. BUT few people would cut themselves trying to end themselves sooner.)
Is this kid christian? cause if he's faithful, getting through this will have put him through one hell and thus, actually make him a literal hell of alot more faithful and stronger. Here's my analogy of sorts. If you could call it that...
life is a gift given to us by our Lord. He lends us a lifetime. He knows when our death will come and how. In being suicidal, or intentionally harming oneself, your being very ungrateful. It's like throwing the greatest gift you'll ever have back in the giver's face. Like throwing your blood at God's face. And in throwing it at him, you're throwing it away. forever. That, I believe, is one of the worst sins a person can commit.
I'm praying for him, and I'm praying for you Beefguy. Be strong, help him, be there, love him as you can. Love means sacrifice sometimes. If it at all feels out of control, at all. Then do him the biggest favor you can. Get help.
I'm here, let me know of anyway I can help please...please....
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Post by Alameth of the Iron Fist on Sept 26, 2006 8:35:02 GMT -5
I can only echo what my friends have said. Pray. Be there for him--when he needs it, whether he wants it or not. (That's the hard part. Often, they don't want it. Be there anyway.) This is tough to go through. Sometimes I think it's tougher for the friends than the person actually cutting. (Which isn't really true, but it's close.) Remember you're not alone. Involve an adult, even if it's only telling them you're worried about your friend because...fill in the blank...and you'd appreciate it if (the adult) would talk to him. IMPORTANT thing here: make sure it's someone he respects. Someone whose advice he won't disregard.
You have my prayers. Both of you.
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Post by Kirke on Sept 26, 2006 10:52:54 GMT -5
Cutting and threats of suicide are extreme, twisted attempts to obtain pity and other forms of attention from people.
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Post by Middle Earth Mouse on Sept 26, 2006 13:17:55 GMT -5
even if sometimes they don't realize what they are doing...ya, pray for him and all of the other stuff these gys are saying, and if you know anyone who used to cut themselves, but got out of it, talk to them, try to get them into this friend's life, or at least get suggestions from them.
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Post by beefmonger on Sept 26, 2006 17:51:15 GMT -5
I already know how bad this crap is, you don't have to lecture me. I know it's bascally slapping God in the face when you reject life and that Hell is crap load worse than anything he's going through. I don't need this teaching, he does. I just know how to get him to understand. What really sucks is that I don't even personally know him. We met on a forum and he lives in Florida while I live in Montana. But he's still really close to me. Anytime he had a problem, he would come to me and talk about it, and that was good, but now his mother took away his internet and there's basically no way to contact him anymore. It kills me to read his messages about the crap he's going through, but I can't seem to figure out how to help aside from praying for him. I know prayer is extremely powerful, but it still feels like I'm just standing by and watching him kill himself. I thought about taking the "tough love" approach, but I don't want him getting angry at me for getting angry at him and therefore giving me no chance to even contact him the very few times he's around a computer. I don't know...I guess try to get as many people praying for him as I can and maybe search for advice from everyone that's willing to give it.
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 26, 2006 18:17:43 GMT -5
In my life, I have seen things that most people would qualify as miracles. Direct intervention from God when noone else could have intervened. I know such things are possible. Pray.
I know what praying for that feels like, I know that feeling of complete helplessness, the way it breaks you inside. I know the pain that sears through your being on an almost tangible level everytime you see that hopelessness in his words. I know how it feels as if prayer does nothing, as if all hope is lost. But it is not. Come to him, your God, and pray as you break, as you cry, as you fall to your knees before him in helplessness. He will hear and he will work.
And yes, suicide is cowardice. But the majority are not crying out for pity. They are crying out for love, for something to fill the void.
Do not speak of things you do not know.
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Post by beefmonger on Sept 27, 2006 0:23:26 GMT -5
Thanks. It feels good to hear your words of encouragement. It always feels good to hear them from anyone. Thank you all.
And the reason for suicidal thoughts, when I experienced them, were just to end it. I never seriously considered it, of course, but if I hadn't had the knowledge enough to know that suicide is the exact same thing as murder (love your neighbor as yourself goes both ways...) and you couldn't be forgiven, I'm almost certain I would've gone through with it.
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Post by Kirke on Sept 27, 2006 9:37:01 GMT -5
Why can't you be forgiven suicide?
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 27, 2006 11:47:49 GMT -5
It is your last act. You commit suicide, you die. And you go out having stolen something from God. What time to do have to repent before you are judged?
I do not claim that God is incapable of forgiving it, but do not even begin to argue with something that anyone has used to get out of that death-trap. Anything it takes to get out, and you can beg forgiveness later. You don't argue with something like that, James. There are things that are not appropriate to say, especially when someone has just asked for help. You just managed to find two of them within two posts.
Again, I warn you. Do not speak of that which you do not know.
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Post by Kirke on Sept 27, 2006 12:56:51 GMT -5
That's a Catholic belief. It stems from the mortal versus venial sins.
In other words; that's heresy. Jesus Christ died to forgive the specific sins of specific individuals and no man can deny that as His birthright and His purpose.
If I were to drive a knife into my heart right now; it would not affect God's love nor the fact that Jesus Christ died to forgive every single one of my sins, past, present, and future, at the moment he died on the Cross.
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 27, 2006 15:01:42 GMT -5
You missed the point, James. You are debasing BeefBoy's reason to live. Noone has a right to do that, even if it is in your mandate of Truth. I don't care, James, who you think you are. I don't care what the particulars of this are. I honestly don't. Suicide is cheating God in the biggest way possible. You are arguing against what Beefy has said is the reason he is talking to us now. Stop.
I am warning you one final time. Do not speak of that which you do not know.
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Post by beefmonger on Sept 27, 2006 15:37:12 GMT -5
I'm just a bit lost here. Someone wanna tell me what this argument is about?
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Post by Alameth of the Iron Fist on Sept 27, 2006 15:57:40 GMT -5
James, I have to back Sam on this one. When someone is thinking suicidal thoughts, it's not just a cry for attention. Even cutting. It's not just a cry for attention. VERBALIZING it, making it widely known, that's a cry for attention. But when they do it and think it and they don't tell anyone.... They honestly think they're worthless. They honestly think there's no way out. There is evil in the world, and it floods them all too easily.
The one thing I regret about being homeschooled: not enough experiences. In this realm, anyway. Didn't see enough pain. Sure, I can talk about it all day long, but until you've really, truly seen it, you have no idea. When you look into someone's eyes and all you see is emptyness....when you know the mind behind the eyes is thinking everyone would be better off without it... You don't know what that's like until you've seen it...until you've been there. You can't know. You can talk about it factually, from what you think you know....but you haven't been there. (And honestly, you can't tell me you have.) Sam has. I think I have. When day after day, you wonder if you didn't say enough, and you won't see your friend again...that hurts beyond belief. Every day, torturing yourself, wondering if you'll see them again, wondering if you said enough, if you did enough, wondering if you were the last person they'll ever talk to on earth and you didn't do enough.
I have to echo Sam. Do not speak of what you do not know. Don't act like you know everything when in reality you know very little. (Socrates claimed to be the wisest...because he knew one thing, and that was that he knew nothing.) Maybe you have to be a woman to do that. I don't know. But try.
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Post by Kirke on Sept 27, 2006 23:53:20 GMT -5
Oooo, the Socrates/woman approach. Nice. Except you should brush up on Socrates.
He was convinced he WASN'T the wisest man in the world and did his best to prove otherwise. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/socrates
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 28, 2006 0:28:02 GMT -5
My apologies Beefy, in our haste for damage control and retribution, we seem to have neglected the idea of this thread.
There's a song whose lyrics you might find appropriate/accurate/powerful. It is "Never Let Go" by Josh Groban. Might do you some good to look that one up.
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Post by Kirke on Sept 28, 2006 0:47:39 GMT -5
God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof.
There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.
Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.
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Post by beefmonger on Sept 28, 2006 17:05:36 GMT -5
Psalms, ne?
I'll look up those lyrics, Steel. Thank you.
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 28, 2006 20:20:20 GMT -5
<tilts head in a half-bow> If there is anything more I can do, all you ever need do is ask.
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Post by st1_Emrys on Sept 28, 2006 20:35:48 GMT -5
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Post by beefmonger on Sept 28, 2006 21:44:32 GMT -5
Nice lyrics. Thanks, both of you.
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 29, 2006 11:36:04 GMT -5
No problem. Another favorite of mine....Last Words, by Thousand Foot Krutch
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Post by Alameth of the Iron Fist on Sept 30, 2006 7:47:12 GMT -5
Yes. That's a good song. One I've used before in such situations...
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Post by steel_lily on Sept 30, 2006 9:14:08 GMT -5
Beefmonger -
This is Steel's father. She was describing the conversation that was happening on this board and I felt that I had to jump in.
If you have a friend who is cutting, you must bring in a trusted adult. At the risk of sounding condescending, this is an issue that is much too serious to be left in the hands of children.
The esoteric, theological debate that took place before you, while your friend was risking his life, was completely inappropriate. It is time to get this person competent assistance - hopefully from a Christian source.
Cutting is a cry for meaning, feeling, and love. Most kids who cut are not attempting suicide, they claim they are attempting to FEEL. They have reached a point of emptiness - of non-feeling.
We know that Christ can help them, that the void in their life can be filled with Christ's love. Sadly those words can be as empty as their feelings at this point. A form of intervention is needed. Simple words cannot bring a person back from this brink, it will take active love.
Please, please engage a responsible, Christian adult. Quite likely your friend will not be happy with you for doing this but it is the cost of making a responsible decision.
^^Hey, this is Steel, and yes that was my Father. Alameth will recognize his tone...she can vouch for me. I wish to apologize, because I do not regularly talk to random people (even my father) about other people's problems. It is not my place to do so. Alas, I was ranting in my still-smouldering anger over the debate, and my father took an interest. I do trust him, and I respect him greatly. He is a wise man, and has walked this Earth for a long time...making footsteps I wish I could follow. Again, however, it was not my place to discuss this without your permission, Sr. Beef.^^
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Post by st1_Emrys on Sept 30, 2006 12:52:31 GMT -5
finally. Steel... Your father has earned my respect.
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Post by beefmonger on Sept 30, 2006 16:35:13 GMT -5
Tell your dad I appreciate his effort, but again, all I can give is words. I don't know anybody he knows and we live in opposite corners of the country. I wish I could find someone he may respect or listen to, but I have yet to find a way this can be accomplished. If anyone has an idea how to do this, it would be greatly welcome.
Oh, and I don't mind that you told someone. The word needs to be spread if we're going to find something that works.
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Post by Kirke on Sept 30, 2006 19:57:39 GMT -5
Good advice, Mr. Latch.
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Post by beefmonger on Oct 7, 2006 19:27:02 GMT -5
Well, I talked to him again and he says he tried to get his friend to kill'im, thinking that that'd save him from Hell... I can't take this anymore...
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Post by heyyou on Oct 7, 2006 20:58:13 GMT -5
Hey...I'm sorry...and no, no you shouldn't take that anymore, and he shouldn't either. He needs help. Serious help. And he'll hate you for it, but call. Call a suicide hotline or 9-1-1. Tell them all you know about him. Because that's too big for anyone to handle but trained people who can really give what he needs, and God. But it appears in life that God's work is done mostly through people. Save your friend's life. Call. Tell them what you can. Get him help. Please...
And I'm sorry, I really am. Let me know if there is anyway I can help, at all, besides pray, because I already am.
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